hol+ by Dr. Taz

Tamsen Fadal Speaks Out: Why Menopause Research Is Failing Women
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Tamsen Fadal: How is none of this information out there? Why aren't people talking about it? How do we get information? What do we do? Why do we think hormones are doing? What do we do? There's a lot we don't know, but I definitely know what my end goal is. My end goal is, is to close some of those gaps when it comes to research dollars, to access to information, to making sure that women know what's going on, and to making sure the generation coming up behind us knows what's going on.

Tamsen Fadal: Lifestyle changes are going to be important. Supplementation might be important. Exercise, under lifestyle, uh, sleep, stress, you know, all those different things, you know, how we work out.

Dr. Taz: Really, the answer is in personalization.

Tamsen Fadal: 100%.

Dr. Taz: Please join me in welcoming Tamsen Fadal, an Emmy award winning journalist, author, documentary filmmaker and social media's midlife mentor.

Dr. Taz: After more than three decades as a news anchor, Tamsen made the bold decision to pivot her career towards women's advocacy. From the bedroom to the boardroom, she serves as a best friend and a guide, a one stop resource for everything women need to thrive during midlife and beyond. Her latest book, How to Menopause, Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better Than Before, will be available in March of 2025.

Dr. Taz: She's also the creator and the producer of the groundbreaking PBS documentary, The M Factor, shredding the silence on menopause, which has galvanized a global movement. Welcome to the show, Tamsen. Tamsen. Welcome to the show. I have been such a fan of yours. I think I have watched you for a long period of time.

Dr. Taz: And then as you've sort of stepped into this menopause space, just so impressed with your drive and your advocacy to really make a difference for women's health. I've got to ask, you know, why women's health? Why menopause? What made that become the focus of a lot of your work?

Tamsen Fadal: Yeah, it's a question I ask myself sometimes because I, I am, am here and it's, it seems like it was a given all along.

Tamsen Fadal: You know, I lost, I lost my mother at a very early age and so breast cancer, to breast cancer. And that was always something that, that, that hung over my family and me and I was always aware of it, but it wasn't until I actually had my own personal experience with menopause and not knowing what I was experiencing that I realized there had been no progress from the time that.

Tamsen Fadal: I lost my mother who had gone through a medical menopause as a result of a double mastectomy and chemotherapy to where I was today, you know, a few years ago, landing on the bathroom floor of the new studio, not knowing what was going on, heart racing out of control, lots of brain fog, lots of anxiety and not sleeping.

Tamsen Fadal: All these years had gone by without a conversation. I'd never had the conversation, and as a member of the media Yeah. I'd not had the conversation to even talk to viewers about. So it was kind of this double whammy, and so I, you know, I started Doing research, getting deeper and deeper into understanding where there's so many gaps, and saying like, I don't know what I can do as one person, but I know what I can do in terms of as being a, uh, somebody that asks a lot of questions.

Tamsen Fadal: As a journalist, it's been my career my whole life, and it wound up, this is probably my most personal story that I'll, uh, I think I'll ever tell. amazing. To help women in whatever way I can, whatever I

Dr. Taz: can. So how many years is it, if you don't mind me asking, between when you lost your mom And your menopause experience, how much time elapsed between that?

Tamsen Fadal: Um, that I lost my mom in 1990 and, um, and I, I had my, uh, incident happen in, um, I'm so bad with numbers. I'm sorry. I was 48 years old. So it was about 28 years, 28 years. So

Dr. Taz: in 28 years. It's your mom's experience, your experience, very comparable.

Tamsen Fadal: Very comparable. I mean, she never talked about it. I just remembered, and this is how I realized that she was going through it, um, you know, a few years after what happened to me and I started talking about it on social, obviously we had very different ways of.

Tamsen Fadal: being able to communicate what was going on. But I, um, I look back and I remember there was one particular trip to Lake George over the summer where she had gone through her first um, surgery and she had gone through radiation chemotherapy and then I realized that she was sweating, pouring sweat all the time.

Tamsen Fadal: She would have water and she'd be throwing it on her chest and it was always a kind of a source of, she'd laugh about it and the family would laugh about it. Right. And I, I remember thinking about it one day and I started crying. I was like, oh my gosh. She was suffering. She was suffering but she was trying to laugh about it because I don't even know if she knew what was going on.

Tamsen Fadal: I don't know if she knew she went into a induced menopause at that time. So, um, it makes me really sad to think about, but it also makes me know that that's the reason for this. And so whether she is watching or guided me or it just kind of all happened this way, I feel like there's a reason that I'm, I'm here doing this.

Tamsen Fadal: Cause it wasn't a plan.

Dr. Taz: I know. And same for me. Like I entered this space without a plan or. or a vision or anything like that. It was really about my own health. And my hormone story started in my twenties, but it's so interesting to me in the same 25 years or so that I've been seeing patients and practicing, like not much has changed, you know, when it comes to what their experiences have been.

Dr. Taz: And I think of my own mom and I had shared this story recently too, that when she was my age, you know, She had a lot of mental health stuff going on, you know, a lot of anger, a lot of rage, you know, high, low, all over the place, which really disrupted our family, you know, and really impacted our experience growing up as young girls and then going off to college and things like that.

Dr. Taz: And in hindsight, she was suffering, you know, she was. probably going through menopause and having and experiencing the loss of estrogen and progesterone and all the things that women experience at this phase of their life. So I feel for the women of prior generations with the lack of access and the lack of knowledge and unfortunately we still have a lot of work to do.

Dr. Taz: today. When you look at the landscape of today around hormone health and menopause, what do you see? Um,

Tamsen Fadal: I see incredible doctors like you, not afraid to step up and talk. I see women louder than ever before embracing this conversation. And I actually see us Uh, really banding together, which I really like, I've never been, uh, like I was a journalist for a very long time and it was really just kind of me and the story or the people that we were helping.

Tamsen Fadal: I've never seen, I've never been surrounded by a community. It gets me almost emotional because I, I've never been surrounded by a community of women like you, of the other women we know within this space that are really working to help each other, like tirelessly, just wanting to help one woman at a time and it's making a difference.

Tamsen Fadal: We see it making a difference. Yeah. We see. women coming together, communities coming together, women talking about it, um, books being written about it, you know, conferences being had about it. And so it, it, it's a big deal. And so I, I see that change, but I also know there's so much to do. So despite everything we're doing, we still need more.

Dr. Taz: We do. And you know, it's so interesting. Yeah. I've been following you for a while and I've known about your work for a while, you know, Definitely your work in journalism. And I think I remember your announcement on social the day you said you were stepping away from your career in journalism, which I think spanned over 30 years, if I'm correct, right?

Dr. Taz: You know, what prompted that decision? And maybe paint what those 30 years of journalism were like, what were the highs, what were the lows, you know, and what made you step away?

Tamsen Fadal: Yeah, I mean, journalism is my love. I really enjoy storytelling. I really enjoy bridging the audience. Um, and you know, I had had an incredible run and career and I did all sorts of things.

Tamsen Fadal: I was able to tell stories within communities. That was really the big part of it from New York to before that Orlando, Florida, West Virginia, Philadelphia. I mean, I've been all over when you're a young reporter, you know, move different markets. And so I was able to do that and really be embraced by a lot of amazing communities.

Tamsen Fadal: Um, I did yeah. things like chase hurricanes. I did things like I did. I did. Yes,

Dr. Taz: I didn't know that. I was one of the ones clinging to

Tamsen Fadal: the stop sign. Um, and, uh, would go to, you know, we're go where stories were. And, you know, one of, one of the larger stories that I did go, I was embedded in Afghanistan for a period of time, um, telling the stories of, you know, of, uh, our, our soldiers there.

Tamsen Fadal: And, and so that was really an incredible Probably a life changing experience for me, not understanding all of that, um, as well as I did once I left. So that was an incredible moment. And then, you know, I spent the last 15 years or so anchoring the news, and so those would be story of the day, so something would happen like a Hurricane Sandy, and the impact that it would have, or 9 11, and the impact it would have, and the stories, and the people, and you get close to people, and you know, you hurt with people and cry with people.

Tamsen Fadal: And you know, you have stories where you laugh with people. So I w I was really grateful for, for all that experience. And stepping away was, um, it was, it was a long time in coming. Like it didn't happen overnight, but I knew that this next area, I just felt this pull of like, I have to tell this story. So every day I'd go into work and all I could do was thinking about this.

Tamsen Fadal: I'd be like, what if we do a menopause story? What if we do a woman in midlife? story today. They're like enough. And so, uh, they were really grateful and really just amazing about it all. You know, they, they, they let me leave earlier than I was going to and I, you know, I still go back from time to time. So it's really a nice, yeah, they knew it was really important to me.

Tamsen Fadal: So it was really nice to be able to say great things about your former bosses, you know, I think

Dr. Taz: there's such a story speaking of stories just in that I think it takes a lot of courage to step away from something you've done for a long period of time. You know, what What was your first step? What sort of motivated you to move away from that?

Dr. Taz: Were you scared at all?

Tamsen Fadal: Petrified?

Dr. Taz: I'm still scared when I think about what I did. When we think about women in menopause too, or just this period of life in general, it is an opportunity to take those leaps and to jump, right? And do that which maybe you never had a chance to do before. You know, but a lot of times people are held back by fear or scared that they're going to fail.

Dr. Taz: You know, what, how did you have that conviction that This is the way to go. I

Tamsen Fadal: think all of it, fear, you know, finances, failure, like every F you can think of, you know, um, but I, you know, I made a plan. There's no question, like, I had to do that. It was a, it was a few years in advance that I, like, started really thinking about it, and I started, um, talking about it all the time, not leaving necessarily, but talking about what I wanted to talk about next.

Tamsen Fadal: And I think what really showed me the, um, the reason for it, or the reason for this conversation was social media and social media did a lot to really, um, open that. world up to me, open the community up to me, um, you show me what was needed. And so that was, that was a very, um, affirmational in terms of, of what I did and what people wanted.

Tamsen Fadal: And then when I started doing, doing a work on the, on a, the documentary that we released a few months ago, I really. Um, yeah, so I made the plan of what, you know, what I wanted to do, what I wanted it to look like. Look, I still, every day, every day is a little bit different as an entrepreneur. Like I'm never a hundred percent sure what's going to happen, but I definitely know what my end goal is.

Tamsen Fadal: My end goal is, is to close some of those gaps when it comes to research dollars. to access to information, to making sure that women know what's going on and to making sure the generation coming up behind us knows what's going on. So I know that's my end goal is to leave that as what I, you know, I don't have daughters of my own.

Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. I don't have daughters of my own. So I just kind of feel like all of these are my daughters that I want to, you know, to shepherd into this next area and not, and not suffer like that. And um, if I can do that, that's It's, you know, feel pretty cool about that. That's amazing. It feels good that, you know, it feels, feels pretty good.

Tamsen Fadal: Let's talk

Dr. Taz: about the documentary. Tell us a little bit about it, what it's, what it's called, it just released a couple months ago. Uh, how that was born, you know, I can't imagine setting out to make a documentary and, um, I just want to get behind like the creative mind a little bit. What did you do first?

Dr. Taz: What did you do second? How'd you

Tamsen Fadal: pull people together? Thank you. Yeah, that it's called the M factor, shredding the silence on menopause. And, um, my original partner, Joanne, uh, Lamarca and I, she was a former producer on the today show. We got together, Joanne. Oh, you do. Yeah, she's for sure. Yeah. Good friend.

Tamsen Fadal: It's my sister. Um, And so we got together talking because another friend of ours said, Listen, all you guys do is talk about menopause. I am so tired of hearing about you talk about it. You guys talk to each other. I'm going to introduce you. She literally introduced us. Joe and I got on the phone. We scheduled it.

Tamsen Fadal: We actually found our date of like our first conversation. It was an hour and a half long. We had it both in our calendar and a zoom. And, um, we just talked about like, how, how is none of this information out there? And this is a time almost three years ago now, why aren't people talking about it? How do we get information?

Tamsen Fadal: What do we do? Why do we think hormones are data? We don't, what, what do we do? And so, um, oh, you know, over the course of a few months we said, listen, maybe we should just see if there's some kind of appetite for. People wanting to learn and share because we weren't really sure if people were willing to share at that point, right?

Tamsen Fadal: People weren't running around going, I'm in perimenopause. I mean, we've changed a lot in the past very much. Yeah. So we went out into middle Times Square. We were still a little post pandemic at the time. People were in masks Like what do you want? And we'd go, you know, can you tell us about when you knew you were in menopause and Would they actually talk to you?

Tamsen Fadal: Some did and some didn't. A lot of women were like I don't even remember it. Others, I remember one sat down and she goes, menopause made me leave my job because I couldn't think anymore in conferences and meetings. And I went, what? So, um, so I remember thinking we were just like, wow, there's a lot to go on.

Tamsen Fadal: What do we do with this? And we said, maybe we just put something together, like an hour long. special and put it up on YouTube. Like we didn't know what to do. Right. And then, um, about six months later, I met Denise Pines and Kobe Atlas, the other two partners in this now on the West coast. And the two of them, I was talking to them and um, Denise has a business and she said, what are you working on?

Tamsen Fadal: I said, a documentary. And she said, so am I. So what's it about? She met a pause. I said, so is mine. Oh my gosh. We got together. We said, let's not compete. Let's join forces and really do something really special and we did. We got a lot of no's and a lot of people that, you know, we said like, would you want to air a documentary?

Tamsen Fadal: Nope. There's no audience for it. What was the pushback on that? There's no audience for it. Yeah. It's a niche group. Um, it's kind of depressing. People aren't going to want to hear about that. And so we, we felt, you know, for a little while, it was like a slow going process, but we kept going out and doing the interviews with the doctors.

Tamsen Fadal: And we said, we want to make sure we hit a lot of doctors as many as we can. We funded it ourselves because we didn't get a lot of funding until after, you know, you know, the end. Um, And then we wanted to make sure we had women's stories and, uh, you know, a real mixture of women's stories to make sure that we had diversity there in terms of, um, of what women were going through, you know, the ages of what they were going through.

Tamsen Fadal: And so, um, we put it together and then PBS said, we will air it. And so that was super exciting. And so it started going market to market. And then what we decided to do is to be able to offer it up for the past. Yeah, however many months it's been now for communities to come together. And so that's what we did.

Tamsen Fadal: We've licensed it out for free for communities, um, so we could have as many people be able to have conversations about it. So we've been, we've had, I think, over 300 plus screenings to date in over 33 countries and growing. Yeah. So we have, like we have a screening recently in France, we had one in the UK, so they've been all over the place.

Tamsen Fadal: The more important part, aside from seeing the film, is the conversation happening afterwards. What's the feedback been? What's happened after? Yeah, we just get women coming together saying, you know, we sat there for an hour and a half after the film and talked. And I went, oh, thank goodness. Because that's, that's where we're going to make change.

Tamsen Fadal: That's where we're going to make change.

Dr. Taz: Where do you think, so let's take the documentary, let's like chop it up into little blocks. Talk to me about the research consensus. Yeah. Where we landed there.

Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. Well, there's a lot, you know, when we set out to do this, we set out to do a couple of things, answer as many questions as we could and give the audience as many questions as they could to ask.

Tamsen Fadal: There's a lot of confusion about hormone therapy. If you ask 10 doctors, you'll have 15 responses, maybe more. And we know that. And so we, we set out to find doctors that, you know, wanted to share what they were doing with patients. either they were in the research space or that they were currently doctors that were seeing patients, because not all doctors are seeing patients at this point.

Tamsen Fadal: And, um, and some were involved in telehealth too. And then we wanted to talk to workplaces as well. And, um, so, you know, we talked to Dr. Lisa Moscone about her research into the brain, menopausal brain, which is really important. We talked to Kelly Casperson, who's been a very big voice in terms of sex and in terms of testosterone.

Tamsen Fadal: We talked to, uh, Dr. Sharon Malone, who's just. That's really incredible about taking really tough information and making it understandable. And her mission is to make sure women don't suffer. And that's really, really important. Um, we talked to Dr. Mary Jane Minkin, Dr. Stephanie Fabian, Dr. Mary Claire Haver.

Tamsen Fadal: Uh, Dr. Wen, we, we wanted to make sure we had a mix of the research and doctors that were, you know, were really talking, talking on social media. And so I think at the end of the day, the consensus for, you know, the majority of our doctors is really understanding hormone therapy, explaining that. why they're, why they're recommending it to patients, what they're saying if patients are not at least being offered the conversation about it and making sure that everybody knows that their experience is going to be different.

Tamsen Fadal: You know, what's going to be good for you and good for me is going to be different. If my mom were alive today, she wouldn't be a candidate for hormone therapy. So does she get left out of the conversation? And so it was really important for us to make sure that those women are not left out of the conversation, that lifestyle changes are going to be important.

Tamsen Fadal: Supplementation might be important. You know, exercise under lifestyle, uh, sleep, stress, you know, all those different things, you know, how we work out. There's a lot. We don't know. There's a thousand percent so much work to do

Dr. Taz: still. And you know, I can speak from my perspective of seeing patients and working on this over and over again, that really the answer is in personalization.

Dr. Taz: It's not, it's not a one size fits all. It's not HRT for all. It's not none for anyone. I loved meeting and talking to Sharon Malone. Yeah. You know, she's got this like 30, 35 year, Perspective on the field, which is so rich and so fascinating. But, but I love that, you know, all of these voices were highlighted, but that's the research part.

Dr. Taz: Maybe even a little bit of the clinical part. I actually have a clinical question because

Tamsen Fadal: I hope I can answer it, I don't know, I'm a doctor.

Dr. Taz: It's more like looking at the landscape, right? Because I know you interviewed some of the best and brightest in the field. Is that conversation happening for the average woman in an exam room?

Dr. Taz: Across the globe, because I hear from women all over the world too, is it happening for everybody across the

Tamsen Fadal: globe? 100 percent no, like 100 percent no, and that's, that was really for, that's, you know, that was one of the other reasons for the film, is that not only that, you know, we need some, we need as a society, But women need answers as to what to say if the doctor is not having a conversation or if they say, listen, this is just something all women go through, you know, or don't give them any kind of conversation about suffering.

Tamsen Fadal: And listen, I know that. You can't expect your doctor to know everything, but I do feel like at least a conversation and not to keep putting the onus back on the woman to go in there and have to say, like, here's the research study that I found. But unfortunately, that's where we are right now in a lot of different ways.

Tamsen Fadal: I'm grateful that there are doctors like you, like the doctors in the film, that are unafraid to speak up and are bold and brave about doing that and not saying, Oh, this is all we know. And this is where it's going to stop because that's not, that's not the answer. We can't do that. I've been to D. C. Now three, four times because we need more money, right?

Tamsen Fadal: We need, we need more research. We need, uh, you know, and we need the media also to take whatever research and what studies. So that's where I kind of fill my role. you know, comes into all this as being a, a loud voice.

Dr. Taz: Well, let's talk about DC. I actually wanted to ask you that question. Like on the political front, on the advocacy front, on the legislative front, some would say we're in a dark era for women's health.

Dr. Taz: What's happening with women and menopause? Where's the, what's happening with research funding and clinical funding too? Because I feel like you can have research, right? But you have to do the clinical work too. Because sometimes what's happening in the lab doesn't replicate. You're dealing with a human being who has.

Dr. Taz: and all this other stuff going on. Yeah. All

Tamsen Fadal: those things that really matter. Um, DC, you know, we went about, um, uh, maybe, maybe a few weeks ago we went and, um, we met with one of the senators there because they're back to introducing a bipartisan bill, which I think is really exciting. And that's what we want to see.

Tamsen Fadal: I mean, that's to go after money. That's. to go after even public service announcements to make sure that women are aware of what's going on. That's to go after research dollars. So that's an exciting thing for me. There were a couple, there were like maybe three different bills aside from that that have been discussed.

Tamsen Fadal: But I think, you know, if we're going to have to, we go back to the drawing board in a lot of different ways of figuring out, you know, what we do, but I don't, this conversation is nowhere near not happening. And I think when we see, um, You know, what I always say is like menopause is not a partisan issue.

Tamsen Fadal: No. It's just not. And so that is what my, my line is and that is what, you know, we're fighting to have happen is to make sure that. And this is trying to get money for,

Dr. Taz: for research. For both. Well,

Tamsen Fadal: for research, for, for announcements, for public announcements, for awareness. I mean, I think we need all of that.

Yeah.

Tamsen Fadal: I don't know where we stop. Like, I don't, I don't know where we stop with that. We need education and we need medical school. There's so many different areas. You could play whack a mole with what you want to pay attention to. But I think money is an important conversation and education is the important, the second.

Tamsen Fadal: important conversation. And

Dr. Taz: women having accessibility to the information, I think, too, right? On top of everything else. Because we've got women, you know, I am so fortunate to meet women, like, literally I'll do telehealth visits and somebody's sitting in a cornfield and, you know, saying, we don't have access.

Dr. Taz: Isn't that amazing, though? I know. To be able to reach those women? It is. I think that's such a, it's like, it's just amazing to me. It's incredible.

Tamsen Fadal: But they're like, what? We don't have anybody around here to talk to. Nobody close, nobody within miles. Right. It's unbelievable. It is. It's unbelievable. And that, that's so important.

Tamsen Fadal: And that access is important. Affordability and all those different things.

Dr. Taz: What we're seeing here in America. Is that true internationally as well? What do you feel like in the global scale? How is menopause treated? Now again, remember I'm coming in with this very old perspective of holistic health, Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, merging it with conventional western medicine.

Dr. Taz: But a great perspective. A great perspective, but in those Yeah. You know, menopause was actually revered. You were sort of rising into your own. You were becoming the matriarch of the family. You know, you were relied upon. Your wisdom was important and valuable. And it wasn't sort of this retreating, you know.

Dr. Taz: And like hiding in a corner irrelevant type situation being invisible. That's the word many women use. It really wasn't that the rest of the family and the rest of the culture gave you a lot of importance and relevance, you know, but I'm curious as the world has westernized, right? And as you know, women have entered into, you know, the working world and things like that.

Dr. Taz: And family looks different. Is this an issue internationally? And I'm curious as to whether you, with your screenings, have noticed this. Well,

Tamsen Fadal: I feel like, first of all, gosh, I wish we lived in a world where, where it was like that. Where the woman was revered and didn't feel When I hear words like invisible or irrelevant, it makes me really sad, you know, because I think about all the things that that woman has to share.

Tamsen Fadal: And I, and I grew up in a family where we had, you know, a lot of the intergenerational all the time. So do we. So it was very That was more commonplace, like it was very clear, but I know how things have changed. What I have found interesting, and I haven't been able to visit all the different countries, I've got some of those coming up, but I have watched how these, um, documentary screenings have been embraced.

Tamsen Fadal: And I think that there's the same kind of thirst, you know, I think that no matter where we're talking about, we had one in Lithuania not too long ago, you know. New Zealand, Singapore. Um, so when I look at how they're embraced, I think that that thirst for the conversation of women of this age, of this Gen X, you know, millennia, you know, older millennials are feeling the same way.

Tamsen Fadal: Like they feel that irrelevance. They feel that no one's talking to them. They feel like they're suffering. I was at a screening the other night and, you know, all the rooms were around my age or between 45 and 55 years old. And one hand out for another, like my doctor told me to smoke pot. to get my sex life back.

Tamsen Fadal: My doctor told me, but I was like, what? Like some of the, some of the, it made me really sad to see how these women are treated. So I, I do think there are some cultures that revere women of this age, but I think there, I don't know, very few, it seems to me that I, that I've heard from.

Dr. Taz: Well, I think even in the more traditional ones, I think we've moved away from it because.

Dr. Taz: And that makes me sad because those are the ones that I was holding on to hope. Work to be done across the board. For sure. Well, you know, as we think about. women and menopause, you know, what are their options today? Where, where do we lead them? What's the starting point? Is it the first point just to have the

Tamsen Fadal: conversation?

Tamsen Fadal: I think the first part is, um, for me and I, I kind of always pooh poohed this a little bit, but when I would hear people go, Oh, community is really important. I hear myself saying it constantly because I really realize how important that community part is right now. I, I had no idea when I was younger how important it would be to this day.

Tamsen Fadal: Yes, the conversation, um, to, to make sure if you can't have the conversation with somebody else, like you and I sitting here isn't happening all over the country, right? Right. And so if you don't have that, that comfortability, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to leave here and be like, that was such a great conversation.

Tamsen Fadal: I'm going to ride high all day and I feel even more empowered. Right. But if somebody else does not able to do that, or they're in a cornfield or they're not able to be somewhere to have it, or they don't feel comfortable. What do they do? So they have to hear from all of us to say like, okay, you're, you're part of us now.

Tamsen Fadal: Come on. It's okay. Join that conversation. And if you don't get a response back from a doctor, I mean, telehealth, I feel like they're very clear on what they have to do. Such a game changer. But if you're not getting that response, you have to be brave enough. to move on. And we have to give women that access to, to be able to do that.

Tamsen Fadal: We can't say, Oh, go find five doctors. Hope you can also at the same time, uh, you know, get out of work five days a week to run around from doctor to doctor. So that's where I think telehealth is a big game changer, but you know, we want more access for these women too.

Dr. Taz: You know, you mentioned menopause in the workplace a couple of times, you know, what's happening to women in the workplace.

Dr. Taz: I know I hear the stories from my patients and, you know, and It's, it's really something women that could lead companies, meetings, conferences, all of a sudden are just like, I can't remember what I was supposed to say is super embarrassing, you know, but what's happening to women in the workplace in terms of not just, we know symptom wise what's happening to them, but how much is work?

Dr. Taz: culture and company culture adapting to the rise in this conversation.

Tamsen Fadal: Yeah, I, um, you know, we did a big section of the documentary about it because we did find a company that was implementing policy and that was exciting. And look, every workplace is different. One person is going to work in a classroom.

Tamsen Fadal: Another is going to work behind the wheel of a, of a car. The other person is going to be in a, in a C suite. So we know that we can't say, okay, ever here's the policy for everybody. But I think what we can do in, in most, if not all workplaces is allow there to be room for that conversation, allow there to be some kind of safe place for women to have at least, I don't care if they get a downloadable, I don't, I don't care what it is, but at least have a resource to be able to go to, to be able to have the conversation and then figure out where we go from here, whether we're talking about flexible.

Tamsen Fadal: You know, work days or hours or that we're talking about some type of help in the workplace. What we don't wanna do is single women out and say like, oh, you can't do your job, can't do menopause, right? Yeah. You have, you have the menopause, right? No, no, no, no, no. We're gonna, we're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna be promoted or you're gonna be punished somehow because you can't do your job.

Tamsen Fadal: Um, but I'm with you that I see over and over again, and I was the same way. I was reading a teleprompter i'd, I'd look at the words in front of me and I'd be like. I can't see that. I can't remember it. I break out into the sweat and then skip it. You know, because there's nothing else to do when you're live.

Tamsen Fadal: And there's nothing else to do when you're in the middle of a conference and can't get the word out or talking in a conversation. And I think that really hurts our self confidence. I think, um, that it's detrimental to women, which is why we want the help first, so they don't even get to that stage. But for right now, trying to help implement some of those policies.

Tamsen Fadal: You know, tailored again, customized, personalized to different workspaces, I think is important.

Dr. Taz: I mean, I think that's just, I, I get really sad when I see women retreating from their lives. Because in some ways, this is actually where we're the strongest, right? usually very good self esteem intact. We are clear about what we want, you know, but then to struggle with all this noise and then to take a step back, I think that's such a disservice to the community and, you know, leave alone, you know, to the woman herself.

Dr. Taz: I think that one of the things that I personally would love to see is just more resources for women, you know, when they're going through menopause and less sort of, you know, shame and guilt around accessing those resources. You know, I think a lot of times people hear the word menopause and it's immediate negative connotations.

Dr. Taz: I'm getting old, but if we can somehow, here's my hope. If we can somehow take that word and either rebranded. Or be like, you're about to enter the most exciting phase of your life, you know, and here's why. I think that's something that the workplace would benefit from and that communities and societies would benefit from too.

Tamsen Fadal: I'll work on that with you.

Dr. Taz: Okay, there we go. That's, that's our mission. We're done. Um, but I do want to talk about your book because you've spent, not only do you have the doc, I mean, you've done so much, first of all, for the space, which everyone should thank you for, but, but. You also have a book, and that's coming out soon.

Dr. Taz: So tell us a little bit about that. I had too many words left after the documentary. Too many words after

Tamsen Fadal: the documentary. I love that. I was like, I have more. More to say. Um, you know, there's so many incredible people in this space, and um, there's so many incredible resources out there. And so, you know, aside from doctors, I wanted to make sure that everything is part of this conversation in terms of lifestyle, in terms of exercise, in terms of.

Tamsen Fadal: workplace mindset. Right. Dating. You know, there's all of these things you can't leave out. So, so many doctors have written incredible books like yourself, you know, that really hone in on the science and the research. So I wanted to pay tribute to that and make sure that that was in there in a really actionable way, but then go beyond the doctor's office and say, okay, there's also the lifestyle of all of this.

Tamsen Fadal: What we do in the kitchen, what we do in the bedroom, what we do in the boardroom, what we do beyond that. And so I, um, I was like, well, I don't even know what to call this book, which I struggled with it for a long time. I'm like, What do I call? Hot? Hotter? Hottest? Like, I had all these, like, I had 300 ridiculous names.

Tamsen Fadal: I was like, coming in hot, when life gives you hot flashes. I'm like, I didn't know what to do. And then I went, oh, this is how to menopause. Like, this is kind of what I like. Thank you. I like that. It was a lot of sleepless nights. It made my husband crazy. But, um, But it really was that, you know, it was like, what do you do at this time and how do you make it a great way to, you know, like take charge your health and reclaim this part of your life versus this narrative that we have been told, which is to shirk back and feel invisible and be grateful to still be there on the stage, you know?

Tamsen Fadal: No. And so that was, that was why. And, you know, um, I was excited to be able to spend time doing it. And I, I just, I don't know, I love, uh, bridging that gap. between experts and audience. And I think, you know, that's where the, the journalist in me still keeps coming. I keep coming back to it. Dragging me back to it.

Tamsen Fadal: So

Dr. Taz: in the book, tell us a little bit, like, is it like a how to guy, like key takeaways? Oh yeah. Key takeaways for

Tamsen Fadal: sure. Women's stories for sure. You know, I really leaned on the community quite a bit with it to make sure that I got all stories in. Cause I don't. I don't know every experience, and you know if in one day you probably have 50 stories you could walk away with from, from patients.

Tamsen Fadal: And so I reach out to the community on, on social, on my email list, in our, in our Facebook groups, and I said like, Every time I write something, I'm like, sex, what's going on, you know, what are your questions in sex? What, you know, what are some of the stories, you know, that you, that you've wanted to share?

Tamsen Fadal: What would you tell your partner if you could write them a letter? You know? So, so I wanted to make sure there was actionables and that it was easy to digest because that's huge for me. I have. Zero attention span. And I wanted to make sure that depending on where you were in this journey, you could flip to that.

Tamsen Fadal: I don't know if you remember that book, Simple Abundance. Oh, yeah. I love that book. I do too. And I always would have it on my bedside and I'd be like, I need this page today, whatever. I don't know. I think it was by dates. But, um, but I always needed to like flip to something and it was useful and I wanted this book to do that.

Tamsen Fadal: So I kind of I broke it up into parts. So I made the stories actionable. I have some personal stories woven in there of my whys and resources in the back. So people can access those and quizzes and QR codes for more downloadables that I couldn't fit and recipes and stuff.

Dr. Taz: So it's interesting cause I've been definitely watching like the hormone and the menopause stuff.

Dr. Taz: And there are a lot of books that have come out and you know, a lot of different people weighing into the field, but I don't think I've seen one yet. From a journalist perspective. Oh, thank you. I mean, I could be wrong, but from a storyteller's perspective Because I think we as clinicians are gonna tell the story from our vantage point, right?

Dr. Taz: Like what we see, what we've experienced, you're hearing our voice, right? But my guess is that you're putting a lot of voices together. Yes, a lot of voices. And I think that there's, you know, a certain, a certain gift to that for sure. Thank you. How are you? Cause are you okay saying how old you are?

Tamsen Fadal: Oh yeah, I'm good.

Tamsen Fadal: I'm I just turned 54, 54. Yeah. I was like, how old am I?

Dr. Taz: But talk to us about how you're taking care of yourself in this life. Yeah. And what's worked for you?

Tamsen Fadal: Um, well I have a couple of things. I've have seen some changes over the past few years. I'll be honest. Like I, um, I, so I do hormone therapy, you know that.

Tamsen Fadal: And so that's, that was really helpful in for me. It was really a game changer, especially with my sleep. Um, I have, since I left my job, it was a year ago. I really tried to focus. I was like, okay, you have this year and I have no more excuses. Well, you know why you can't go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time, except if you bad about that.

Tamsen Fadal: I was terrible about it. I know I get in trouble. I'm not, I know my ring yells at me. I have the aura ring and it screams at me all the time. Shutting all the lights off. Oh, he does. That's good. That's so good. My husband doesn't cause he just falls asleep on the couch. He's just like falls asleep and I go, Oh my gosh, I'm still working.

Tamsen Fadal: And I'm like, if he's not in bed yet, it's okay. Um, so those are my two biggies. And then I walk every morning. Like I try to do, I don't know, 10, 000 steps in the morning and I do my phone calls during that. And so I do a lot of calls and walking, getting out first time. you know, first part of the day and that I'm trying to change how I'm taking care of myself.

Tamsen Fadal: Like I was the sloppy sleeper. Cause I'm like, who needs sleep? I'm still really cool. I can do it for three hours. Fine. Um, I was kind of the I'll eat whenever I'm hungry and it's fine, but I've really tried to implement the protein thing in my, in my day. And that is work. It's like a chore. It's not a easy, you know, thing.

Tamsen Fadal: Um, cutting back on alcohol, huge. I, I always, um, I was always like, Oh, I'm, I don't really care very much about alcohol and I never really have, but I enjoy my glass of wine or champagne and it really has changed. My body has changed how it deals with it. Oh yeah. I had a glass of champagne, glass and a half of champagne the other night we went out.

Tamsen Fadal: I hadn't had it for a while. I was sweating in the middle of the night. It was like I woke up three times. I went, what? Cool. It's not worth it. This is 54, but I'm okay with it. So now I know. Um, And then Tom's managing stress, I think, has been a big thing. Yeah, I used to think that that was just something you Um, you know, you just deal with and you'll figure out along the way, but I really focused on that and being present with people a little bit more as I'm getting older.

Tamsen Fadal: My dad's getting older and my nephew's getting, you know, what did you

Dr. Taz: find your biggest physical challenge was in menopause and your biggest emotional challenge was in menopause?

Tamsen Fadal: Oh, that's a good question. Uh, my biggest physical challenge I think was a brain fog a hundred percent because it really, uh, hurt my self confidence at work.

Tamsen Fadal: Like it really, I felt uncomfortable, um, doing a job I'd done forever, like nervous. Yeah, nervous. I'd get on the set and I'm like, just get through this newscast. Really? Yeah. Wow. A lot. And, um, and you know, uh, part of my job was ad libbing. So you just talk like this about a story. And I would, didn't trust myself to like what, what I wouldn't be able to retain.

Tamsen Fadal: I remember, and I used to be the person that could talk for an hour about this, you know, table and not have a script, you know, and then I'm like script. Um, and then emotionally, I think, um, I, I guess, you know, I look at what my mom went through and I guess I just feel sad that we're still here, but encouraged that we know we're, we're here now and we're doing something about it.

Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. And I think, I just think about that big gap of time and the suffering that went on. Yeah. And a lot of the women now that I hear from that go, I was never even offered that or I suffered for this long and is it too late for me to do this and what can I do now? So that I think bothers me a lot.

Tamsen Fadal: Still. Keeps me up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I hear those stories all the time. So it's like, but I feel like we're moving in the right direction. That's amazing. Well, tell us a little bit about the book and

Dr. Taz: where everyone can find it. Yes,

Tamsen Fadal: of course. Howtomanipose. com. Some, that wasn't taken. Nobody. There we go.

Tamsen Fadal: I love that. Nobody took that one. Nobody took Howtomanipose. com. It's got perimenopause and menopause in it, obviously, both of those, especially with so many symptoms of perimenopause. being so prevalent. And, um, I'm always at Tamsen Fidel. So you can find an amazing social platform

Dr. Taz: by the way. I love, I love you on social.

Dr. Taz: You just open yourself up to all of us. Maybe too much. No, maybe too much. Incredible. It's so inspirational. I think it's great. All right. I have to leave you with one last question. Yes. Give it to me.

Tamsen Fadal: What makes you whole? Oh, what makes me whole? Yeah. My, I mean, my family makes family a hundred percent. So, you know, we've had some other guests.

Tamsen Fadal: Family's a big one. It is. I think as I've gotten older too, that would be my answer. But I, you know, I lost my mom young. I still have my dad. He's 85 next month. Healthy? Yes. Like he want, I took him to Spain this year. What? He'd never, he hadn't been overseas in 50 years. It was the coolest thing. So, um, yeah, it's my family.

Tamsen Fadal: Family. My husband is just. It's like he allows me to, you know, he's my big cheerleader and that's pretty cool. That's a gift. He doesn't try to fight me from being who I am. That's such a gift. He might

Dr. Taz: want to, but he doesn't. Mine, mine tried and failed. I was going to say, mine just keeps it inside. I know.

Dr. Taz: So sorry, sweetie. Anyhow. Well, it's been such a joy. Oh, I love this. It's such a pleasure. I have loved watching you, learning about your career, and then love to see all your energy sort of channeled in this space, which women really need. So thank you. Thanks for what you do for women every day. And for being here.

Dr. Taz: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening and watching today's episode of Whole Plus. Be sure to share this episode with your friends and family. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or click the follow button on Apple, Spotify, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts.

Dr. Taz: And don't forget to follow me on all social channels at DrTazMD. Until next time, stay healthy and stay whole.